BUFFY, ANGEL, CHARMES sont elles juste un phénomène de mode?

[Tonks]

le petit probleme c'est que comme beaucoup je n'ai pas regarde la majorite de la saison parce que c'est insupportable de voir Buffy en VF et que mon portable a un disque dur trop petit pour telecharger sur internet et que donc maintenant j'ai du mal a suivre ce qui s'est passe .

Enfin, bon, c'est pas trop grave. Je ne peux que remercier le doubleur, si c'est vraiment le cas, qui a ete indispose(e) pour nous permettre de voir la serie en VO.

[nsapretender]

Hou à j'arrive plus à tout comprendre là à force de ses flèche et des ses changements de sujet

[Tonks]

tu n'arrives pas a comprendre quoi? Le fait que je suis un peu perdue parce que je n'ai pas regarde la serie en VF, ou bien le fait que je n'ai pas vu la saison 6 en son entier parce que mon portable a un disque dur trop petit pour telecharger les episodes en V.O. ou le fait que je remercie le doubleur ou doubleuse (si c'est vraiment pour cela que la fin de la saison pass en V.O.) qui a ete indisposee pour nous permettre de voir la fin en V.O.?

Il s'agissait juste d'une construction de phrase dite lourde avec plusieurs propositions

[nsapretender]

Je parlais des autres pages avant ton intervention.

[DarkLord]

Après avoir vu tous les épisodes à ce jour diffusés sur SC, je dois dire que cette saison n'est pas la pire.
Certes le passage à un traitement plus mature et humain des épisodes ne s'est pas fait sans accroc. Mais sur certains points la saison revêt des intérêts.
Ce n'est pas la pire. Je préfère l'aspect plus dramatique de cette saison à celui mélodramatique de saison comme la 3 ou la 4 (si je me rappelle bien).

Enfin, on est dans le domaine du "moins pire".

[joma]

Salut, je passer par là par hasard, si si... Quand j'ai vu qu'on parlait de Buffy, ça ma décider à intervenir. Donc, les séries sus-dite sont elles un phénomènede mode. Bien évidemment, tout ce qui marche est au départ à la mode. Mais cela ne peu en rien altérer la qualitée d'une série (pour Buffy). Ce qui est à la mode marche, mais ce qui est à la mode ne veut pas forcément dire mauvais. J'ai donc complétement par hasard regardé Buffy et Charmed, j'en ais aimer une, et detester l'autre, mais je les ais regarder car on en parler autour de moi, comme moi j'ai parler de Profit ou Star Trek TNG à des potes (bon d'accord c'est pas vraiment des séries à la mode) mais sans cette effet de mode je serais surement passer au travers d'une grande série, et pourtant j'ai plus vingt ans.

[Tonks]

Voici un excellent article paru dans le Washington Post sur Buffy et Spike et la reaction de Marsters par rapport a la tentative de viol sur Buffy.
J'adorerai le traduire mais etant aussi moderatrice d'un forum (celui sur la recherche contre le cancer), j'ai pas trop le temps :) et puis etant bilingue c'est la torture de traduire.

Enjoy, guys.

Spike Gives 'Buffy' a Darker, Sexier Tone

By Richard Harrington
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, August 11, 2002; Page Y06

It's a match made in, well, not heaven. Among the most riveting developments last season on UPN's "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" was the odd coupling of just-back-from-the-dead Buffy Summers, (Sarah Michelle Gellar) and the drop-deadly handsome, and ageless, platinum blond bloodsucker Spike, played by James Marsters.

Television has rarely seen anything like the passionate, sometimes violent and abusive relationship between these longtime adversaries, reluctant allies and, in the series' sixth season, haunted lovers.

It's a long way from the '60s innocence of "Bewitched," where sweet witch Samantha had a joyful relationship with mortal husband Darrin. As recently as the late '80s series "Beauty and the Beast," Catherine Chandler managed to find true love in the tunnels of New York with feline-faced man-beast Vincent. Heck, Buffy herself spent her first two seasons in puppy love with Angel (David Boreanaz), the mopey vampire with a soul who eventually went all evil, got re-redeemed and moved on to his own series.

This was a challenging season for "Buffy," one of television's most insightful dramas about growing up and female empowerment, with demons and vampires and the evil they conjure serving as metaphors for life's many trials. It wasn't simply because the series moved from the WB to UPN. Buffy was still reeling from the death of her mother, as well as her own death at the end of season five. Resurrected by wicca Willow (Alyson Hannigan) and reluctantly alive, she spent much of the season in a depression, unable to enjoy life after being ripped out of what she called "heaven" by her friends in the Scooby Gang--so named because, like the cartoon dog, she and her fellow demon slayers and fighters chase scary things.

Many critics, and even some long-time fans, thought last season was too dark for too long, and series creator/executive producer Joss Whedon has conceded that two of his goals were to have the increasingly solitary Buffy face the inner demons that accompany maturity and explore the dark side of her power. The show also toyed with the notion of its human characters confronting their demon aspects and demons like Spike and 1,120-year old vengeance demon Anya (Emma Caulfield) developing their humanity.

In exploring the morally complex relationship between Buffy and Spike, Whedon and co-producer Marti Noxon were able to touch darker, edgier and more sexually oriented storylines. In fact, its volatility, including steamy and surprisingly graphic sex scenes, was a constant topic on the multitude of Buffy-related Internet sites.

Spike has been called the most creative villain on television, and he's one of the most striking: a stylish-in-black night stalker with a killer smile and cheekbones to die for. He also has a bitingly sarcastic wit (the writers seem to give him many of the best lines), delivered in a roguish British accent that gave way to a more homespun Northern California accent (the actor grew up in Modesto) when he appeared recently as the star attraction at Shore-Leave, the annual sci-fi fan convention in Baltimore.

Marsters, 29, spent two afternoons signing autographs and fielding questions from an adoring throng of mostly female admirers who conceded that Spike may be a psychopathic killer with two Slayers already under his belt, but he's also incredibly sensitive and romantic and maybe, just maybe, Joss Whedon should let him be redeemed. Already, Spike has gone from loathsome on arrival in Sunnydale (his was supposed to be a short stay: here tonight, staked tomorrow) to likable to lovable.

"The thing is that Spike has been used in different ways," Marsters noted. "He's had different jobs on the show--as disposable villain, hapless wreck for comedic purposes, wacky neighbor by design, and then love interest." The actor is thankful that the show's writers "have been forced to explore the character so Spike would fit into these different roles."

Last year's darker themes were somewhat facilitated by the move to UPN, Marsters said. "There were a lot of things we couldn't do at the WB, while UPN gave Marti and Joss a very long leash to explore. It's an interesting synergy. At the time when Marti was really taking the reins, we moved to UPN. It seems that Joss's crucible of experience, the thing that he draws from, is his adolescence, and Buffy is no longer an adolescent. Marti's crucible seems to have been in her mid-twenties and it's just perfect: now we have someone who wants to explore herself with this metaphor. So we get a new head writer and a new network, all of which facilitates exploring Buffy as a young adult, plus UPN didn't have so much of a need for us to quell the darker side."

Buffy had to deal with issues such as trying to find work to pay the bills, battling the nerdy but persistent troika of "Archnemesis-sis-sis," and dealing with the addiction to magic that turned Willow into last year's Big Bad. But the lust/hate relationship between a melancholy Buffy and the lovesick Spike was the show's strongest subplot.

Having both battled and bedded Buffy, Marsters is asked which is more fun, the romantic relationship or the adversarial one.

"Man, it's one and the same, isn't it?" he exclaimed.

In "Buffy's" exquisite musical episode, "Once More With Feeling," Spike sang that "if my heart could beat, it would break my chest," later imploring: "Let me take my love and bury it in a hole six foot deep/ Why won't you let me rest in peace?"

But it wasn't long before his conflicted emotions exploded in "Seeing Red," possibly the season's darkest, most disturbingly violent episode, in which Spike attempted to rape Buffy on the floor of her bathroom.

"I can't watch it," said Marsters of that scene. "That's the hardest day of work in my life. I went home shattered after that. I don't think I've still picked up the pieces of that one. Sometimes the work gets real tough, I've got to say. When the writing is that good and they're cutting that close to the bone, it can surprise you sometimes how it can rock you."

The recollection prompted Marsters to depart from his lighthearted banter with the Shore-Leave fans. "Ladies, repeat after me," he said somberly. "If a man isn't good to others, he isn't going to be good to you."

"Seeing Red" was a crucial episode, forcing Spike to realize he can't remain in limbo between being a monster and a good guy who lacks a soul. As last season ended, Spike apparently sought to rid himself of the implanted pain chip that had neutralized him as a vampire, while leaving him free to kick demon tail. To the audience's, and possibly to Spike's surprise, in the last episode's final scene, his soul was reinstated.

Consequences of that action--whether Buffy will be able to love Spike-with-a-soul, whether Spike will hate himself after feeling guilt for centuries of death and torture--will likely be major plot lines this year. They're exactly the kinds of thing fans love to ask about at conventions and online chats, although Marsters and other cast members seldom give away future plot developments.

Plotting is Whedon's job. After signing a new four-year $20 million deal with 20th Century Fox Entertainment, Whedon will continue making "Buffy" and its spinoff, "Angel," for that studio and produce other new series. The first one up is "Firefly," a sci-fi fall series for Fox that Whedon described as a space-age western, an "anti-Star Trek" with no aliens. There's also a Saturday morning "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" cartoon for Fox and "Ripper," a spinoff for the BBC starring Anthony Stewart Head, the English actor who plays Buffy's "watcher" Giles.

"I don't know what's going to happen this year," Marsters said. The show's brain trust "may explore something else entirely. But last year I think it was important that no matter what the fans wanted in terms of redemption, we kept very cleanly to [Whedon's vision], and I'm proud of that. We're not wussing out on the metaphor. Life does get more complicated and more scary as you grow up, and this is not for little kids."

As for "Buffy," whose new season begins Sept. 24, Whedon and Noxon have let it be known that Amber Benson, who as Tara died last year, will appear again, and Head will return for 10 episodes as Giles. Also reappearing: ditzy vampire Harmony (Mercedes McNab), flamboyant Hell goddess Glory (Clare Kramer), renegade Slayer Faith (Eliza Dushku) and even Spike's old flame, Drusilla (Juliet Landau). The biggest comeback will be Sunnydale High, destroyed at the end of the third season in 1999, now rebuilt and enrolling Buffy's sudden sister Dawn (Michelle Trachtenberg), who is the same age Buffy was when the show began in 1997. Whedon has said that not only will the show be more positive, but Buffy "is going to find herself in the position of becoming a leader . . . She's going to have to approach her calling, and her problems, from a very different perspective."

Marsters, with a lot of theater experience and a few brief guest appearances on series such as "Northern Exposure," made his entrance in "School Hard," the third episode of "Buffy's" second season. Spike and his loopy vampire girlfriend, Drusilla, arrived as the Sid and Nancy of Sunnydale, with Marsters patterned on Sid Vicious, Billy Idol and "Lost Boys"-era Kiefer Sutherland.

"I was told very bluntly that I'm not going to be here very long: 'Dude, you're going to die, you're cannon fodder,' " Marsters said with a laugh. "I did one season of 10 episodes and the story arc was very well completed. And they brought me back for one episode in season three--they often do that with characters for an episode or two --and I thought, well, maybe I'll get one this year, maybe I'll get one next year."

By season four, Marsters was invited to join the cast full time, reflecting his huge popularity among fans and growing favor with Joss Whedon.

"We knew that James was great from day one," said Whedon. "The question was how much he would become a part of the show. As writers, we were getting to know him as a good bad boy. He brings a lot of soulfulness that's genuine to the role."

"It was apparently when Joss saw Spike being quite humbled and pitiful and human that he finally saw something in the character that he thought was sustainable," said Marsters. He added, "I had asked him to give me two weeks notice before he takes my shirt off, just to give me some time to pump up."

Pointing to his muscles, Marsters joked: "It's your product, you want to make it ready. And Joss got this weird look on his face and called me over to the side of the sound stage and said, 'Get ready, dude, cause you're going to go for Buffy next year.'

He's done a lot of Buffy-esque things this year including providing Spike voice-overs for the new animated series as well as the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" Xbox video game from Fox Interactive. Having already starred in various "Buffy" comic books and modeled for his own collectible action figure, Marsters also has just released a CD by his band, Ghost of the Robot.

One of the few obstacles the actor faces is, understandably, the sun. Spike is necessarily pale, so Marsters, who already undergoes painful peroxide treatments for his hair twice a month, stocks up on sunblock and generally avoids the beach until twilight.

The other challenge is "keeping rail thin. I've been after a body type since I got on the show. When I came to L.A., I was 200 pounds and working out--and then I got the role. Playing a vampire for six years, it's hard to be hungry, but I'm a metaphor for hunger, psychological and sexual. And I noticed that the only vampires to really hit the American consciousness and stay there were almost unhealthily thin, with the one exception of the original, Bela Lugosi."

Still, Marsters is probably the first size 28-waisted vampire in that colony of actors who have tackled this classic character. His mark on the role was noted recently by none other than Barnabas Collins, that elegant vampire on the '60s soap opera "Dark Shadows."

"I just got an autographed picture of Jonathan Frid," the actor who portrayed Collins, exulted Marsters. "He said, 'You've made it, man!'"